Sensible suggestion, I'll try that Keith. On a glass top the Herman rolled with just the slightest rise and fall just a knats though. The Whisper was dead straight and is also about 25 mm longer than Herman. The end on the Herman thickness wise is more chunky than the Whisper so the two faces screw up better. The Whisper though has an extra baffle like a coned air filter in the barrel end, which is removable to swap for separate mail female push fit adaptors, which come supplied. Though I did need to fit two O rings on the Whisper to stop it from undoing from the two silencer joins instead of at the barrel adaptor. Both retail about the same price £57. Though the Herman is supplied from BAR for £45. I bought the Whisper from Churchills for £35 which was the 180. A second size the 130 Whisper is also available from Deben @ £35, so mine was a bargain. The adaptor from Best Fittings are £22.50 free post. They fit flush and very neatly, though they do need an extra O ring not supplied. You can slip off the O ring from the barrel cap and refit onto the adaptor. I bought extras in the three different sizes required from Hayley's Electrical about thirty for £2.50. I think the silencer on a 97 idea is well worth the hassle and expense. Far better than the Herman dedicated 97 silencer that screws straight on the existing silencer. You don't have to keep swapping end caps and silencer over, just a screw on standard female silencer. One more point before I forget the POI with the Herman was a lot lower, one full mill dot. No drop but higher with the Whisper. How do you reckon that! I'm sticking with the Whisper even though it's two DB's louder and longer. A buddy of mine wants one!